In March 2018, the renowned Klett-Cotta publishing house released the psychology non-fiction book “Seitensprünge: Warum Untreue nicht zur Trennung führen muss” (Affairs: Why Infidelity Does Not Have to Lead to Separation) by the Paderborn couples counsellor and author Stephanie Katerle. Section 9, “On Guilt, Morality and Integrity”, contains a chapter (pp. 122–126) consisting of an interview conducted by the author with private detective Patrick Kurtz on the subject of infidelity in partnerships. Below you will find a transcript; the links and subheadings were added by us and are not included in the book.

“Legitimate Interests”: Interview with Patrick Kurtz

“Patrick Kurtz is the head of a detective agency operating nationwide, with offices in all federal states. In addition to economic crime, one of the main focuses of his work is tracing unfaithful or allegedly unfaithful spouses. His work attracts the interest of reality documentary producers from private television broadcasters as well as serious daily newspapers. His list of interviews is long. We conduct the conversation by telephone; he is currently travelling in Leipzig.

Who is more likely to be unfaithful – men or women?

Stephanie Katerle: ‘Are there gender differences in the degree of mistrust? Or, put differently: who engages your services more often – men or women?’

 

Patrick Kurtz: ‘I would say it is almost exactly balanced, fifty–fifty. Generally, it is said that men are more likely to be unfaithful, so women would have to commission us more frequently for infidelity surveillance, but in practice we have found that this is not the case. There are no real differences in the success rates either.’

 

Stephanie Katerle: ‘I have also increasingly had the impression that the myth that men are more unfaithful than women is not entirely true.’

 

Patrick Kurtz: ‘That could not really work anyway. If you look at the proportion of men and women, you see that infidelity always involves two people. In the overall calculation, that does not quite add up.’

What prompts people to hire detectives to investigate their partners?

Stephanie Katerle: ‘How long have clients usually suspected that the other person is being unfaithful before they turn to your services?’

 

Patrick Kurtz: ‘That varies greatly. It also depends on whether there is a concrete suspicion on the basis of which we are commissioned. For example: if the husband comes home and has conspicuous lipstick on his clothing or “smells of another woman”, that can be a very specific reason to commission us spontaneously. In other cases, however, there has been a longer process, something developing, a feeling that people are drifting apart. There are various things that seem odd: changes in behaviour, perhaps dressing differently, suddenly placing more emphasis on appearance, maybe doing more sport. Secretly using the mobile phone without the partner noticing is another example. Such small observations can then come together to form an overall picture that leads someone to engage a detective.’

How often is suspicion of infidelity confirmed during detective assignments?

Stephanie Katerle: ‘What is your hit rate?’

 

Patrick Kurtz: ‘If we are given an adequate budget so that we can observe for at least a few days, then in about 75 per cent of cases. Our problem is that people often say: “We will look just once and pay for a single deployment”, and if nothing happens during that period, often only a few hours, then the matter is not pursued further. In that case, it is difficult for me to say: “The suspicion has not been confirmed” or “The person was not unfaithful”, because you have simply observed over far too short a period.’

 

Stephanie Katerle: ‘Then the person having the affair has simply been lucky if they were not caught at that time.’

 

Patrick Kurtz: ‘You could put it that way.’

Typical Findings in Infidelity Surveillance

Stephanie Katerle: ‘Where do people having affairs most often meet? Where do you gather evidence? Is it really mainly hotels?’

 

Patrick Kurtz: ‘What happens in hotel rooms belongs to the most highly protected private sphere of life. We have no access to that at all. From a data protection perspective alone, we have no authority there. Accordingly, we can only observe when people enter a hotel together, which can already be a strong indication. In some cases, both individuals are even known to the client, not only the partner but also the person with whom the affair is being conducted; then the matter is already quite clear. In many cases, however, we observe the target person on the street, for example seeing how the man picks up the woman or how they say goodbye after visiting a restaurant, how they have been sitting together; such things are much more common, and of course one can also observe whether affection is exchanged. Greetings and farewells are always important, because they show how people relate to one another, although some individuals are more discreet in public when cheating on their partners.’

 

Stephanie Katerle: ‘You must certainly have a keen sense for which gestures are telling, which others might not even notice, right?’

 

Patrick Kurtz: ‘That may be so, but: we must never interpret. We observe; we do not interpret. Ultimately, we only document: “There was a kiss on the mouth”, “There was an embrace”, etc. We would not say: “It seemed as if the two were extremely close to each other.” That has to be substantiated much more concretely.’

On What Legal Basis Do Private Detectives Work in Cases of Infidelity?

Stephanie Katerle: ‘What do you think motivates clients? Is it about proving: “He or she wants to cheat me materially”, or are it really intense emotions such as jealousy that lead to commissioning you?’

 

Patrick Kurtz: ‘We generally do not question that. I do not see it as our task. It is only about demonstrating a legitimate interest before investigations may commence. We are interfering with the personal rights of the target person, and that interference must be justified. The legislator refers to this as legitimate interest. The interest is legitimate in so far as one lives in a community of property, in a partnership with another person, in which at some point one must know: “How will my life continue? What will happen to my assets, what will happen to my living circumstances?” That justifies the interest. Even in a partnership – and certainly in a marriage.’

The Proof Has Been Established – What Happens Next?

Stephanie Katerle: ‘How do those caught typically react?’

 

Patrick Kurtz: ‘We usually do not know. We complete the investigations and then the client receives the report. That gives our clients the opportunity either to show the report to their partner or to do something else. Not everyone wants to confront their partner with it. Some decide to do nothing at first, even if the infidelity has been proven, and to continue observing and “keep a low profile”. I do not know whether that is a kind of intimidation or fear that one’s own life could change drastically; in any case, not everyone does it. We are always pleased when clients contact us afterwards and tell us how things have continued, but we do not actively ask.’

Are There Typical Cheaters?

Stephanie Katerle: ‘Would you say that there are typical cheaters? And if so, what characteristics do they have?’

 

Patrick Kurtz: ‘There is a tendency, but it is distorted because we naturally incur costs that are not insignificant. Accordingly, only relatively affluent people can commission us anyway. One needs a regular income to be able to pay us, and therefore it is more likely to be found among the “older generations”, because one is more likely to have accumulated a certain level of wealth. By “older generations” I already mean ages 35 plus; that is our main clientele. However, this is not meaningful, because it says nothing about whether students also cheat, how they cheat and how important that is in student relationships. Among younger people, it is probably more common to forgive a slip-up or to handle things more loosely anyway than in a more established relationship when one is older.’

 

Stephanie Katerle: ‘Does material wealth play a greater role among the older generations, because one has already accumulated a certain level of prosperity and says: “I simply want certainty about this”?’

 

Patrick Kurtz: ‘Spontaneously, I would say that it is generally more about the emotional aspect. If it has already reached the point where one is primarily thinking about material matters, then the decision in one’s mind may already be fixed to bring about the separation and merely collect evidence. That then serves to provide arguments that could help in a maintenance dispute.’

 

Stephanie Katerle: ‘Mr Kurtz, thank you very much for the conversation.’

Kurtz Detective Agency Saarbrücken and Saarland

St. Johanner Straße 41–43

66111 Saarbrücken

Tel.: +49 681 6029 0010

Fax: +49 681 6029 0019

E-Mail: kontakt@kurtz-detektei-saarbruecken.de

Web: https://www.kurtz-detektei-saarbruecken.de/en

Google: https://g.page/kurtz-detektei-saarbruecken

 

Further information about the book can be found here on the Klett-Cotta website.